Update

Although I haven't posted here for quite some time, I do hope to work on this blog over the winter.  I know people still check in from time to time and I feel a bit guilty about leaving it hanging.  I have a number of pictures to use too.

Still feeding raw, Dals still doing well on it.  Last summer I raised another raw fed litter, although several of the pups got switched to kibble by their new owners.  I does make puppy raising easy though as the clean up is very simple.  Very little waste in a raw diet, so much less clean up.

My two oldest dogs are doing well at 11+ and 13+.  Slim & trim, teeth in good shape  and eager eaters.

Pork Necks & Other Pieces

Someone asked if we feed pork neck bones, a RMB (raw meaty bone) often mentioned in the books and on the assorted raw lists.  Actually, I do not feed them, but not for any specific reason.  The dogs get ground pork occasionally if it is on sale. Very occasionally.  They like it OK and seem to do fine.  There is/was a lot of controversy about whether it is safe to feed raw pork, and arguments pro & con as to whether freezing kills the trichinosis that was the reason pork "was" always fed cooked.  I suppose that is something I should look into - is there still trichinosis (or whatever it is that causes it) in raw pork?  Does freezing kill it?  How cold and for how long?   The main reason I do not feed pork necks is probably because the bone seems too hard, a dense flinty bone.  It does not seem like "edible bone" to me, and that is what we are feeding.

Raw feeding involves the owner's "comfort level" - what YOU are comfortable feeding your dogs.  Maybe you aren't comfortable feeding raw at all, or perhaps you feed a home made cooked diet.   Perhaps you are not comfortable with any bones and feed chopped meat and a calcium/bone meal supplement, or perhaps you grind everything for your dogs.    My comfort level does not really extend to pork necks (too hard), lamb necks (too fatty), turkey wings (too large & brittle), turkey drumsticks (same as necks), and I don't particularly like feeding chicken leg quarters (large brittle bones).  I have several friends who feed the latter regularly - they are generally one of the most affordable RMBs and are often on sale for a very good price.  I've fed them, but was not comfortable doing so, at least not the big ones that are generally on sale. I'd probably feed the smaller leg quarters, and do in fact feed small chicken thighs -  very handy when traveling.

IF I had a big grinder that could handle turkey wings and leg quarters, I would probably feed both.

Price Increase

Went into Swanson's Raws For Paws website to place an order as we are down to the last 5# tube of ground turkey.  I've been buying the "good stuff", ground turkey thigh and paying $31.00 for 20# (intended for human consumption).  Expensive, but top quality.  This week the price is suddenly $39.80.  ARGH!  I may have to rethink this.  I'll check with Anderson's and see what I can buy from them.  It's nice having two wholesalers to deal with.  I can buy 40# of ground turkey necks and backs (ground as pet food, of course) which is sometimes a good product, but it often very fatty.  Really want to buy the 10# of bison ox tails ($19.50) this week.  The dogs will enjoy crunching the bones, and Josie who gets itchy from beef does fine with bison.  We were able to purchase ground bison VERY cheaply for awhile, but it must have been due to an overstock and the price is much higher now.

Variety is important, and sometimes it's a necessity!

Sources

Woody's has a new store in my neighborhood.

Someone asked me yesterday how much it would cost to feed a raw diet to two Dalmatians.  That's a question with no definite answer because it all depends on your sources and whether or not you are willing to buy in bulk and repackage.  Chicken backs are available for as little as $12.00 for a 40# box.  40# gives you about 30# of usable meat and bone once you cut off some of the surplus fat and drain out the liquid as the backs thaw.  It takes some time to repackage and refreeze the backs, but it's an economical base for a healthy raw diet.  Chicken necks cost about the same amount and are easy to repackage and feed.  Turkey necks vary in price, but are often affordable and sold in bulk.  The trick is FINDING a supplier.   Sometimes you can order them through your own supermarket, or through a wholesaler.  Because we have so many raw feeders in the Twin Cities area, we have several wholesalers who gladly sell these products to us.

If you only have one dog or are only feeding small dogs (not Dals) there are other affordable option.  Whole Foods sells 3-packs of nice meaty chicken backs (and will order cases if you want them).   You can also buy chicken leg quarters very affordably on sale if you wish to feed larger pieces, or grind them.

We also have a Pet Food Deli  available to us.  Woody's just opened a second store, so business must be good.  They have a great selection of items, both cooked and raw, strictly meat or ground with bone (raw only).   Check out their menu.  They also have some good articles on feeding a raw or cooked diet.  I can't afford to feed 4 adult Dals with their products, but I do buy them to add variety.  The ground rabbit was well received, but the ground duck was greeted with suspicion by Argus.  He'll get his mixed with turkey today.  It often takes the dogs a few days to get used to totally new foods.

How Much?

One of the biggest problems for new raw feeders is trying to figure out how much to feed.  As we all know, the amounts listed on the bag of kibble are only approximations.  For example, not ALL 50 pound dogs need the 2 3/4 cups per day that may be listed on the bag - that's just a guideline.  That 12 year old spayed bitch may only need 1 cup per day to stay in good weight, while your 10 month old male pup, or the dog who goes to Agility 3 nights a week may need 5 cups of the same product.  IF you have learned to keep your dogs in correct weight by using the "eye ball method", you can apply the same principals to raw.  Take a good look at your dog(s) every day and decide if he looks too heavy, too lean or just right and adjust the food accordingly.  You can also weigh him several times a week if that helps.  Keeping a food journal listing amounts fed can also help.



This chicken back weighs about 11 ounces

It might be helpful to weigh the dog's food at first.  Some raw feeders always weigh the food.  Start with the idea of feeding 2% of your dog's body weight per day - that's the approximate requirement for the average adult dog.  A fast growing puppy needs far more, sometimes as much as 10% of his weight.  Seniors often require less than 2%. You are figuring this percentage based on the dog's ideal weight.  If Spot is chubby at his current 60 pounds, then use 50 or 55 pounds for figuring.  If your Dal weighs/should weigh about 50 pounds, then start with 1 pound of food per day.
 
The large meaty chicken back sitting on the scale weighs about 11 ounces.  If our goal is to feed 1 pound of food per day, this would make a perfect dinner for our dog.  Then feed a second meal that weighs perhaps half a pound or a bit less.  1/2 cup ground turkey, 1/4 cup raw veggies and an egg weighs about 7 ounces and would be fine.



These chicken backs vary a great deal in size.

 This works better than saying feed one chicken back per meal.  Raw meaty bones vary a great deal in size, depending on your source. The large 11 ounce chicken back came from a 3-pack of backs purchased at Whole Foods.  The small back came from a 20# of backs purchased from a wholesaler.  The backs in that box varied in size, but this one was typical after I trimmed off a large chunk of fat.  If I was feeding the bulk backs I would give two of them for a meal - or feed a larger ground meat & veggie meal.

Remember, you don't have to get the amounts right each day.  It's just the average over a few days or a week that matters.  If I am low on ground meat, or forgot to thaw veggies, I may give the dogs a smaller ground meat meal but add an extra back to the second meal.  Works just fine that way.

Never Stop Reading

My bedside table always contains a stack of books and magazines just waiting to be read.  My current project has been reading several new raw feeding books, and re-reading the others.  It amazes me all the variations there are to feeding a natural diet to dogs, but why should it be any different than "the best" diet for people?  There is no right or wrong to raw feeding, and once you learn the basic principles you can decide what works best for you, your schedule, the availability (& affordability) of products, and what works for your dogs. 

All raw diets are based on meat - on the bone, off the bone, and ground with or without bone.  Some feed just one or two meats, while others feed a huge variety, including but not limited to chicken, turkey, fish, seafood, beef, pork, lamb, goat, elk, bison, and rabbit.  The list is seemingly endless.  Then you decide whether or not you will feed veggies and fruit (either raw and ground, cooked, or a mixture of the two). Some people feed no veggies at all, although most Dal owners include veggies everyday.  Grain is a very controversial topic, with some feeding absolutely no grain, some feeding it occasionally, and some feeding it every day.  One of the reasons most of us switched to raw was because we did not want to feed grain-based diets, which is what kibble basically is, but some feel there dogs do better if they get at least a small amount of cooked grain.  Dairy is another controversial subject, and many add at least yogurt to raw diets, while others would never consider feeding dairy to adult dogs.

There is no "best way to feed raw, and it's up to you to decide how you want to feed your dogs.  It is not hard to feed them a healthy diet, but do as much reading as possible before you even consider switching your dog(s) over.  I can't emphasize enough that if you are not going to take the time to learn, a good quality kibble is probably a better option.

Raw Diets Can't Cure Everything

I had an interesting comment posted to my blog yesterday, but it was a bit long to use.  The writer was using a nice variety of natural foods for her two Dals, with the exception of feeding exclusively chicken.  She was concerned with the fact that her Dals were itchy, despite the fact that they were getting no grains.  What was she doing wrong? What could she add or change that might help?

While grain-based foods can be the culprit here,  there are many other possible causes. Removing grain does NOT guarantee a dog won't be itchy. Although a raw & natural diet can solve or improve a lot of health-related issues, and prevent others (such as gingivitis), it is not a miracle cure for everything.  My own feeling on the subject is that removing grain is better for curing digestive issues than it is for eliminating itchy allergic-type problems.

If the itchy Dals were mine I would make two changes right now.  If you make too many changes and things improve, you'll have no idea what made the difference.  First, I would change the protein source.  Dogs can become sensitized to any type of protein, and that includes chicken.  When everyone fed beef or chicken-based kibble, the "new" (at the time) lamb-based foods were advertised as "hypo-allergenic".  What a crock!  Dogs can become sensitized to lamb, just as they can to any other protein source.  In this case the problem "might" be chicken.  If the dogs were mine I might switch them to a turkey based diet for two months, using turkey necks and ground turkey and absolutely no chicken.  I've noted a number of postings to various lists stating that the writer's dog(s) did not do well on chicken.    One of my own dogs Josie, gets itchy when she eats beef.

The other thing I would do is change the dogs' grooming routine.  The dogs are bathed every two weeks with a Neem Oil shampoo.  Those poor dogs probably have no natural oils left to protect their skin from anything.  NO Dalmatian needs to be bathed every two weeks, and most pet dogs rarely need bathing.  If they are bathed, it should be with a hypo allergenic soap-free shampoo, cool water, and they should be blotted dry.  No rubbing to heat up the skin.  An oatmeal rinse might be helpful.   Even the dogs we show do NOT get bathed every week or two.  Also, if the skin is inflamed or irritated in anyway, brushing is not the way to go.  A rub-down with dampened hands will remove loose hair safely.

This posting might have been more appropriate on my other blog, but I just wanted to make the point that feeding a raw diet will NOT solve all problems.  Also, food allergies are far less common than inhalant allergies, and chances are the two itchy dogs are allergic to pollens or other things in their environment rather than anything they are eating.  (We'll save a discussion on food allergies and food intolerances for another day.)

New Book

I started a book last night, the newest addition to my collection of dog feeding books.  The author Lew Olson, breeds, shows and judges Rottweilers and has fed a raw diet to her own dogs, as well as an assortment of foster/rescue dogs, for many years.  One of the best things about this book is her attitude on home-prepared diets; she's not a fanatic in any way.  She presents the facts so that you can make the decision on whether to stay with kibble, buy a better brand of kibble, add extras to make your commercial food better, use a combination of kibble and home-prepared foods, or make the switch completely to a home-prepared cooked diet, raw diet or combination of the two.  It's a refreshing approach.

Her chapter on the history of commercial dog food is one of the best I have read.  She starts with James Spratt's creation of "Spratt's Patent Meat Fibrine Dog Cakes" patterned after the "hardtack" eaten by sailors on long ocean voyages.  Commercial dog foods were originally advertised as being an economical way to feed dogs because they utilized waste products such as grain hulls, sweepings, and meat that was unfit for human consumption, and that meat "made dogs' finicky.  And so it goes.  The history of dog food reads like the history of marketing, and commercial foods went from being a cheap alternative to better foods to convincing the pet owning public that commercial diets were the best and safest way to satisfy the dog's complex nutritional requirements.  At the public bought it, hook, line & sinker.  Or perhaps bags & cans.  It's an interesting read indeed.

This morning I spoke with a woman whose dog is having a problem digesting kibble.  They've tried a variety of products and additives with no improvement.  I was MOST impressed that her vet actually suggested considering a raw diet.  We've come a long ways in the past ten years!  Although raw feeding was originally labelled a "fad" it is obviously here to stay, and the recent situation with melamine sickening and killing so many dogs convinced a lot more people that they needed to take control over what they were feeding their dogs.

Twelve-year old Coral keeps her teeth clean by eating
turkey necks and other raw meaty bones.

A friend of mine at work has a dog with gingivitis.  He has already lost a lot of teeth and she was getting ready to schedule him for another dental cleaning - which of course requires that he be anesthetized, yet again.  The dog is obese, has chronic ear infections and chews his feet frantically.  You don't have to be a rocket scientist (love that expression) to know that he needs to have his diet changed.  But no, she won't listen, the dog continues to suffer, and only their Vet benefits from the situation.  Oh well.  You can provide people with information, but you can't make the decisions for them.

When I sell a pup, I provide the buyer with information about feeding a raw diet, but do not require it.  It IS amazing how many understand the logic and have no qualms at all.  There's so much information available now, and plenty of people willing to mentor.  Try it, you'll like it - and so will your dog!





Question About A Commercial Raw Diet

Yesterday I received the following question concerning raw diets -

Below is a list of ingredients for Bravo Balance ground raw frozen dog food. This is the chicken. In your opinion, is it better to use this and maybe add my own veggie mix or order only the ground chicken, which is chicken, frames, organs, and do a veggie mix? There doesn't seem to be many veggies. I do not know what ferrous sulfate, and manganous oxide are.   I can order chicken backs and necks, and turkey necks, but for the ground version, I am not sure which is best. Thanks for your comments.

Ingredients:
chicken, chicken frames, chicken organs (liver, gizzards, hearts), green beans, broccoli, acorn squash, salt, potassium chloride, vitamin E, zinc oxide, copper sulfate, ferrous sulfate, manganous oxide, potassium iodide, vitamin D

Bravo seems to be a quality product and I know a number of people who use it.  Some use it regularly, while others use it when they travel, if they board the dogs or have a house sitter, or when just too busy to prepare the normal diets.  The ingredients list sounds fine, although I don't see a source of EFAs (fish oil or flax seed or something similar).  Prepared raw diets can be very convenient to use, but of course you have lost control of what you are actually feeding your dogs.  If this was fed once a day, the other meal could be used to add some other type of protein source such as turkey, eggs, or possibly cottage cheese if you choose to feed dairy products.

I have two concerns here. 

1. When we feed raw to Dals, organ meats are always something to consider.  Because organ meats are high in purines, and because purines can trigger urate crystal/stone formation, that can be a problem.  On the other hand we don't KNOW whether most kibbles contain organ meats and it's quite likely that many of them do, as it's highly unlikely they contain only muscle meat.  Even the best kibbles would be made from a variety of "body parts", so a good raw diet may not be higher in purines than the kibble you might otherwise use. 
2. And although green beans, broccoli and squash are all good food items for Dals, the first two are relatively high in oxalates.  Oxalate crystals/stones are relatively rare in Dals, but are common in some other breeds.  That's the reason veggies mixes should contain a variety of fruits and vegetables, so you are not unwittingly adding too much of something that could conceivably cause problems.

If the Dals being fed are females, and if they have not had a problem with crystals or stones, the diet is probably safe to feed.  If the Dals are males, you might choose to be a bit more cautious about knowingly adding organ meats.  Although organ meats are suggested for almost all homemade raw diets, most Dal people do not add them.    One of the reasons I feed lots of eggs is because I don't add organ meats.  On the other hand, our chicken backs often come with a few organs attached and I don't remove them before feeding.  I have several friends who feed a lot of Bravo and are very pleased with the quality and convenience.

Remember that all Dalmatians have the ability to form urate stones, but the vast majority of them will never have a problem.  The health surveys submitted to the CHF show just 3% of the dogs having had a problem with crystals or stones, and a huge percentage of those dogs are males.  It's just wise to remember that when feeding Dals we want to be sure they are drinking well (to keep their urine well diluted) and to remember that purines are the culprits in urate stone formation.

Simple Meals



There's nothing easier!

There's nothing easier than feeding turkey necks, unless you count opening a bag of kibble and pouring it in a bowl, then adding water (remember, with Dalmatians we ALWAYS add water to kibble).  Take the bag of necks out of the freezer and leave it in the sink to thaw for 8 hours and you're good to go.  You can rinse them off if you wish, or run them under warm water to warm them up, which makes them a bit more palatable to some dogs, but basically you just put them in the bowl and feed the dog(s). Because turkey necks take real chewing, they are great toothbrushes.  If feeding multiple dogs these should probably be fed in a crate as some dogs eat them much faster than others, and may try to "help" their room mates finish their necks.

The prep work is easy with turkey necks too as they rarely come with anything that needs to be removed.  We order ours in 20# boxes, thaw them slightly for rebagging in freezer bags.  They stack and store nicely too, and thaw quickly because the bag is flat.

Turkey necks vary a lot in size as do all RMBs - remember raw meaty bones, the edible kind.  They can be purchased at some meat counters, especially near Thanksgiving, but it's generally more economical to purchase them in bulk and refreeze.  The Tom Turkey necks are sometimes HUGE.  At one time that's all we could find, and before I fed them to the dogs I would chop them in several pieces.  I've still got notches on my deck rail where I missed the cutting board and took a chunk out of the rail.  About the only thing that works to cut them up is a heavy meat cleaver or an axe.  Some people feed those necks whole, but a large turkey neck can be challenging for a small dog.    One morning I chopped up necks before going to work and forgot to check the mirror before I left.  Was horrified to find that I had bits of turkey flesh and bone adhering to my forehead and cheeks - good that I stopped in the washroom before going to my desk.  I wonder what the people riding up in the elevator with me thought???

We are usually able to purchase hen necks, as seen above.  One or two of them make a nice meal for all but growing adolescents who might need a 3rd neck.  Because turkey necks are rather low in fat (and remember that dogs use fat rather than carbs for energy) we don't feed them every day.  RMBs make up about 60% of our dogs' diet, and that is primarily chicken backs, chicken necks and turkey necks (more on that later).  Poultry parts are generally easy to find, affordable, and palatable. 

Dogs should always be supervised when they are eating turkey necks, just in case someone decides to swallow one whole. Remember that dogs are able to regurgitate at will, and if a dog swallows something large without sufficient chewing, they will bring it back up and rechew it. Experienced raw eaters rarely do this, but it is not uncommon in new dogs.  Just let the dog re-eat the RMB and try not to get too grossed out! Dogs who are not used to eating turkey necks will sometimes bring up a few undigested turkey vertebrae the necks morning.  Just a nice neat pile of small bony (not sharp) pieces with a little foam.